Tuesday, December 06, 2005
The Party of Defeat
How do we take these guys seriously?
"The idea that the United States is going to win the war in Iraq is just plain wrong,"
- Howard Dean
"The idea that the United States is going to win the war in Iraq is just plain wrong,"
- Howard Dean
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We don't. This is the typical anti-American rhetoric that is creating a large rift in American society. I would like to think that we can just laugh it off, but at the same time, we have to take it seriously and take it to the voting booths.
It is important for people to realize that this "you can be anti-government and anti-war and still support the troops" attitude is not as clear cut as these pseudo-pundits would like you to think. If the troops don't have the support of their "leaders" at these eschelons, that does in fact play a part in demoralization on the whole. I don't know why it continues, as their party is definitely skewed, but it is a concern.
It is important for people to realize that this "you can be anti-government and anti-war and still support the troops" attitude is not as clear cut as these pseudo-pundits would like you to think. If the troops don't have the support of their "leaders" at these eschelons, that does in fact play a part in demoralization on the whole. I don't know why it continues, as their party is definitely skewed, but it is a concern.
# posted by 
: 11:49 AM
: 11:49 AM
A lot of this comes back to or ignorance of Foreign affairs. If the average American was more knowledgable on the subject, they wouldn't be fooled by the Ted Kennedys of the world. Ergo the democrats would have to try another tactic.
ninja kitty,
Decent points, but I think the Kurds are not the problem. There continued existence depends on the U.S. If we left them hanging Turkey and Iran would ensure that no viable Kurdish state could exist. So I believe they will listen to us. At least for the short term.
The Sunni/Shia line worries me more. Do you think that the average Sunni can live next to the average Shia? Is it just extreme elements attacking each other. My point is this: if there is no silent majority that want peace, then we will fail unless we create three seperate states.
As for this line:
"It's naive to think that we can come in and unite these three groups."
You are right about my naive understanding of human nature. Look at my early blog entries. I did believe people want to be free and that after the military combat Iraq would unite under a democracy. Life is much more complicated than I realized.
Decent points, but I think the Kurds are not the problem. There continued existence depends on the U.S. If we left them hanging Turkey and Iran would ensure that no viable Kurdish state could exist. So I believe they will listen to us. At least for the short term.
The Sunni/Shia line worries me more. Do you think that the average Sunni can live next to the average Shia? Is it just extreme elements attacking each other. My point is this: if there is no silent majority that want peace, then we will fail unless we create three seperate states.
As for this line:
"It's naive to think that we can come in and unite these three groups."
You are right about my naive understanding of human nature. Look at my early blog entries. I did believe people want to be free and that after the military combat Iraq would unite under a democracy. Life is much more complicated than I realized.
Perception is vital in politics. So if the Kurds perceive that Europe and the UAE will support their independence, then we have a problem. In reality, those countries are irrelevant. Those countries don't send troops to fight for other people. We had to go to Bosnia before Europe would do anything. If the Kurds think Europe will protect them, there will be trouble.
"Kurds have everything to win and nothing to lose by continuing to seek independence"
No. They have their lives to lose. An overt declaration of Kurdish autonomy will most likely cause a war. And the Kurds will not hold out against a united Arab world with the added forces of Iran and Turkey.
I agree with your definition of winning. And I hope that you are wrong about the need for more resources even as I suspect that you are right. The consequences of a loss will be devastating, not only to the region but also to American influence and global stability.
"Kurds have everything to win and nothing to lose by continuing to seek independence"
No. They have their lives to lose. An overt declaration of Kurdish autonomy will most likely cause a war. And the Kurds will not hold out against a united Arab world with the added forces of Iran and Turkey.
I agree with your definition of winning. And I hope that you are wrong about the need for more resources even as I suspect that you are right. The consequences of a loss will be devastating, not only to the region but also to American influence and global stability.
ninja kitty,
One other point: you are being far too generous to Dean. His entire point this he began his run for President in 2003 is that we CAN'T win the war. His use of the word "going" is not an indicator of a new understanding of military strategy. He does not have your nuanced view of the issue.
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One other point: you are being far too generous to Dean. His entire point this he began his run for President in 2003 is that we CAN'T win the war. His use of the word "going" is not an indicator of a new understanding of military strategy. He does not have your nuanced view of the issue.
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